skull_bearer (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
skull_bearer) wrote2016-09-07 04:06 pm
skull_bearer) wrote2016-09-07 04:06 pm
Entry tags:
just-a-man-in-a-can: teamironmanforever: leeferal: teamironmanforever: Ok but do people really...
via http://ift.tt/2cdnak5:
just-a-man-in-a-can:
teamironmanforever:
leeferal:
teamironmanforever:
Ok but do people really not understand that the accords would have happened whether Tony signed or not??
It’s BASIC lawmaking: whether you like a particular piece of legislation or not, if it has passed, it WILL be implemented.
If the Avengers didn’t sign, and continued to work in any country without governmental approval and people died in the process, then they would have been labeled as international terrorists.
Every government would have gone after them, and, eventually, after COUNTLESS of human lives lost, the avengers would have been subdued.
Like when Tony says “or worse will be done to us” HE’S NOT JOKING.
These people have been working without any supervision: that won’t fly with any government.
So, regardless of whether you are pro accords or not, the fact remains that the Avengers NEEDED to compromise or face thousands of losses.
How can people honestly say Steve’s actions weren’t selfish, when he’s aware of this??
I understand this point of view, I really honestly do.
But I’ve always figured that Steve refused to sign the accords because of what happened in Cap 2 with SHIELD. Y’know, when the people he had been trusting (for a few years at that point) to send him out to fight the good fight and give him missions to save people and better humanity ended up actually mostly being a group of neo-nazis out to kill everyone who disagreed with them?
And then suddenly after he’s pretty sure that he’s gotten rid of them again … a different group of people that he’s likely never even met before write up a law saying that he’s got to do what he’s told and only save the people that he’s told to save. Because that worked out so very well for him the last time.
I get mistrust, I do, but here’s the primordial difference: The UN is not SHIELD, and they’re not a “group of people” .
The UN is an organization comprised of 193 Nations. Only 3 Nations in the whole world are not part of the UN (Abkhazia, Taiwan, and Kosovo, and only because not every Nation worldwide recognizes these 3 as Sovereign Nations and these 3 are represented under Georgia, China, and Serbia respectively).
The UN was created in 1945 to avoid ever having another World War, given that both WWI and WWII were so devastating, to try and enforce basic human rights around the world, to establish common international law to avoid international interests from being infringed, and to create and nurture economic and social growth in countries by establishing common laws for trading, creating programs in countries to expand their economies, etc. (For more info just read their charter. It’s quite informative).
The UN is quite probably the single most important entity in the world, particularly for smaller countries, whose voices can only be heard there. Delegates from every country meet yearly, sometimes months at a time, to discuss global issues, trading laws, and international security (though really this is mostly handled by the security council which Marvel sort of avoids by allowing all Nations to weigh in on International security). According to a study done from 2007-2010 the UN only has an average of 17% disproval rating in the 126 countries where the study was made. The residual 83% is divided between high approval and no opinion. Support tends to be highest in smaller countries, that view the UN as the only way they can get a voice. However, it is important to note, the UN even has a high approval rating with americans at a 60% approval rating - possibly the highest approval rating on anything at this point in this country.
So, when 117 of the UN nations tell you that you are out of control and that they do not believe you as a private entity should intervene in their personal national security unless you are asked, that you as a private entity do not have the right to move from country to country (ignoring every single international law in the process) unless the world is in a state of emergency, and that you as an entity are a potential threat due to the vast quantities of physical power you possess that cannot be controlled for you are not a government bound by laws and therefore the only logical solution is that you submit yourself to some form of check so that people around the world don’t have to wonder whether they will be alive in the morning or not because they are so afraid of you, then you sit the fuck down and fucking listen to them.
All of this.
just-a-man-in-a-can:
teamironmanforever:
leeferal:
teamironmanforever:
Ok but do people really not understand that the accords would have happened whether Tony signed or not??
It’s BASIC lawmaking: whether you like a particular piece of legislation or not, if it has passed, it WILL be implemented.
If the Avengers didn’t sign, and continued to work in any country without governmental approval and people died in the process, then they would have been labeled as international terrorists.
Every government would have gone after them, and, eventually, after COUNTLESS of human lives lost, the avengers would have been subdued.
Like when Tony says “or worse will be done to us” HE’S NOT JOKING.
These people have been working without any supervision: that won’t fly with any government.
So, regardless of whether you are pro accords or not, the fact remains that the Avengers NEEDED to compromise or face thousands of losses.
How can people honestly say Steve’s actions weren’t selfish, when he’s aware of this??
I understand this point of view, I really honestly do.
But I’ve always figured that Steve refused to sign the accords because of what happened in Cap 2 with SHIELD. Y’know, when the people he had been trusting (for a few years at that point) to send him out to fight the good fight and give him missions to save people and better humanity ended up actually mostly being a group of neo-nazis out to kill everyone who disagreed with them?
And then suddenly after he’s pretty sure that he’s gotten rid of them again … a different group of people that he’s likely never even met before write up a law saying that he’s got to do what he’s told and only save the people that he’s told to save. Because that worked out so very well for him the last time.
I get mistrust, I do, but here’s the primordial difference: The UN is not SHIELD, and they’re not a “group of people” .
The UN is an organization comprised of 193 Nations. Only 3 Nations in the whole world are not part of the UN (Abkhazia, Taiwan, and Kosovo, and only because not every Nation worldwide recognizes these 3 as Sovereign Nations and these 3 are represented under Georgia, China, and Serbia respectively).
The UN was created in 1945 to avoid ever having another World War, given that both WWI and WWII were so devastating, to try and enforce basic human rights around the world, to establish common international law to avoid international interests from being infringed, and to create and nurture economic and social growth in countries by establishing common laws for trading, creating programs in countries to expand their economies, etc. (For more info just read their charter. It’s quite informative).
The UN is quite probably the single most important entity in the world, particularly for smaller countries, whose voices can only be heard there. Delegates from every country meet yearly, sometimes months at a time, to discuss global issues, trading laws, and international security (though really this is mostly handled by the security council which Marvel sort of avoids by allowing all Nations to weigh in on International security). According to a study done from 2007-2010 the UN only has an average of 17% disproval rating in the 126 countries where the study was made. The residual 83% is divided between high approval and no opinion. Support tends to be highest in smaller countries, that view the UN as the only way they can get a voice. However, it is important to note, the UN even has a high approval rating with americans at a 60% approval rating - possibly the highest approval rating on anything at this point in this country.
So, when 117 of the UN nations tell you that you are out of control and that they do not believe you as a private entity should intervene in their personal national security unless you are asked, that you as a private entity do not have the right to move from country to country (ignoring every single international law in the process) unless the world is in a state of emergency, and that you as an entity are a potential threat due to the vast quantities of physical power you possess that cannot be controlled for you are not a government bound by laws and therefore the only logical solution is that you submit yourself to some form of check so that people around the world don’t have to wonder whether they will be alive in the morning or not because they are so afraid of you, then you sit the fuck down and fucking listen to them.
All of this.