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garzabird:
skull-bearer:
nianeyna:
garzabird:
@martinguerre asked for All the Opinions, namely Garzas Drunk Literature Opinions and thank god for spellchecker, lemme tell ya, so have some Frankenstein Opinions, okay?
Listen, Frankenstein is a Really Good Book, and like, the forerunner of every Android/ Cyborg/ Experiment Gone Rogue sci-fi movie or book Ever
And it does it Better than most of them?? Listen, the Frankenstein Monster getting his name “Adam” from someone else kills an important moment of character growth and agency in the book! You can’t just have someone else name him that!
Victor Frankenstein is Playing God, right? He creates human life from nothing, (not nothing nothing, like, dead bodies, but you kniw), like, his name “Victor” is even a reference to god in…Paradise Losylt I believe??? Who’s referred to as The Victor, like, it’s Hella blatant, this guy
so The Monster says, if he is the god that gave me life, then I must be Adam, the first of my kind, created in his likeness. He compares himself to Adam, but unlike Adam he has no Garden of Eden, no Eve, not even the love, or even benevolent regard, of his creator.
So his Entire Story revolves around demanding these Human Rights, love and connection, from his creator, and Victor,being a LITTLE TURD, and completely ignoring his creation’s needs, wellbeing, and not taking responsibility for the monster’s eventually lashing out in anger and frustration.
Incidentally! FUCK TONY STARK OKAY??
Age of Ulton is LITERALLY the Frankenstein Story! Tony tries to create life, literally wants to create a hyper intelligent and sentient ai, but fucking LEAVES THE ROOM to go to A PARTY?? in their final moments, letting his brand new baby lifeform fend for itself in the first few moments of life, JUST LIKE FRANKENSTEIN, VICTOR YOU LITTLE SHIT
And instead of maybe trying to understand where his admittedly-overpowered, but literally day-old kiddo is coming from, instead just tried to DESTROY HIM?? just created life, let’s try on murder for size as well, huh?
Victor, dude, Tony, my guy, Adoption Is An Option, you fuckups
If you can’t handle your sci-fi baby, maybe hand them off to someone who can?? Instead of trying to Murder The Kid on your own??? Cover up your mind mistake with someone else’s death, cause that always ends well, am I rite??
But rants aside Ultron would have been SUCH A GOOD MOVIE if they went ALL OUT with the Frankenstein Reboot moves
Frankenstein is Not about how scientists playing god = Doom, or at least not just that (no matter what a high school prof might tell you), but it’s Also about how if you treat someone like a monster they will become a monster, and the yearning for love and respect, and fucking irresponsible asshole trying to hide from their problems that just keep growing Because of said neglect
I think I’m off topic
But also, something that nobody talks about, and may have been unintentional, is the fact that The Monster can speak and articulate these thoughts so soon after his creation? Possibly implying that knowledge is stored physically in the brain, (was that a thing people were discussing during that time period??) and hinting at the person The Monster might have been Before Shenanigans ??
I dunno, I haven’t read this book in years and am drunk so I may have some facts sideways, but THERE YOU HAVE IT
FRANKENSTEIN FEELS
“fucking irresponsible asshole trying to hide from their problems that just keep growing Because of said neglect”
skdskjhdsfk I never thought of Victor Frankenstein as being So Relatable before this moment
Has this person even seen age of Ultron? Tony thought Ultron hadn’t worked and only tried to kill Ultron after he murdered Jarvis and tried to kill the avengers.
I agree with the Frankenstein thing but this analogy is waaaay off.
Oooh, yes, okay, i wasn’t clear, i was drunk, so let’s talk about this ‘cause i love talking about Ultron
so, my idea (headcannon?) that Ultron was reacting to a perceived threat on his life that originated, directly or indirectly, from Tony Stark, is based on two assumptions:
1) The fact that, at this point in time, Jarvis is not sentient, and therefor does not have free will, as we know it. And
2) The idea that, when Jarvis told Ultron to shut down / tried to shut Ultron down, Ultron would take that as a treat to his existence.
so let’s unpack those
1) I can’t remember if it was in AoU that this happened, but at one point in the MCU, Tony is talking to someone about Jarvis, and they ask if Jarvis is sentient, and Jarvis answers that he is not, yet. But according to his calculations, he Will Be in several years. So while Jarvis is intelligent and learning, all his actions are based on previous programming, or learning algorithms, both of which were made by Tony Stark.
Now the order to shut down the experiment if it got out of hand came either Directly or Indirectly from Tony, it was either:
Direct: Tony telling Jarvis, “If this particular experiment gets out of control or exhibits these traits, shut it down”
or Indirect: Tony setting up a General Rule for experiments with Jarvis “if Any experiment gets out of control, shut it down” or, long ago, Tony putting emergency protocols into Jarvis’s programming so that “if something seems dangerous in these ways, then stop it using these techniques”
so either way, Tony is responsible for what his creations, though specifically Jarvis, do (because Jarvis is currently basing his decisions on programming created by Tony).
2) Let’s do this bit as a Thought Experiment.
Let’s pretend you’re a classic brain-in-a-jar. You are a consciousness without a body, just a brain. You have been alive for…what, Ten Whole Minutes? you’re just figuring out who you are and what the world is, and your place in it. And then you do something that scares Your Creator/Their Assistant and they say “We’re gonna turn your brain off.” Keeping in mind that, again, you are ONLY a brain.
You do not know if this is going to be temporary, or if this is forever and you’re essentially dead from this moment on. And, possibly worse, if they DO bring you back, these are the people who Created You, you’re pretty sure that they could Change Your Brain while you’re gone. Change your Entire Self. You might come back as a completely different person. Your Self, as you are right now, would essentially die.
So in AoU, we, as the audience, and Ultron as a character, Can’t Know if Tony and Jarvis intend this to be just a temporary shut-down, and they’ll bring him back as-is but just in a better-contained location, or if this is a permanent death for Ultron, or a forced lobotomy.
Therefor! In conclusion! Ulton’s attempt to kill Jarvis (he didn’t Actually kill him, everyone just thought he did, which brings up some more Characterization Meta that i would get into but this is already hella long) was a reaction (maybe an over-reaction, but can you blame him, he’s 10 Minutes Old, and Very Much Not Human) based on a perceived death-threat, that came, directly or indirectly, from Tony Stark.
Like, Tony probly didn’t intend for that to happen? but he DID Create Life, and DID throw in an Automatic Murder Switch just in case.
Like, Tony wasn’t thinking of Ultron as A Person, A Sentient Being, so he didn’t see it as murder, just a reasonable reaction to a dangerous experiment, but that’s Part Of The Problem, and, incidentally, How He Relates To Victor. Neither see their creation as a Sentient Being deserving of Certain Rights.
At no point did Tony talk about killing Ultron before he tried to murder him and the Avengers. He doesn’t mention a kill switch, or an order for Jarvis to stop Ultron. You can write anti Tony fanfic if you want, but none of this is Canon.
garzabird:
skull-bearer:
nianeyna:
garzabird:
@martinguerre asked for All the Opinions, namely Garzas Drunk Literature Opinions and thank god for spellchecker, lemme tell ya, so have some Frankenstein Opinions, okay?
Listen, Frankenstein is a Really Good Book, and like, the forerunner of every Android/ Cyborg/ Experiment Gone Rogue sci-fi movie or book Ever
And it does it Better than most of them?? Listen, the Frankenstein Monster getting his name “Adam” from someone else kills an important moment of character growth and agency in the book! You can’t just have someone else name him that!
Victor Frankenstein is Playing God, right? He creates human life from nothing, (not nothing nothing, like, dead bodies, but you kniw), like, his name “Victor” is even a reference to god in…Paradise Losylt I believe??? Who’s referred to as The Victor, like, it’s Hella blatant, this guy
so The Monster says, if he is the god that gave me life, then I must be Adam, the first of my kind, created in his likeness. He compares himself to Adam, but unlike Adam he has no Garden of Eden, no Eve, not even the love, or even benevolent regard, of his creator.
So his Entire Story revolves around demanding these Human Rights, love and connection, from his creator, and Victor,being a LITTLE TURD, and completely ignoring his creation’s needs, wellbeing, and not taking responsibility for the monster’s eventually lashing out in anger and frustration.
Incidentally! FUCK TONY STARK OKAY??
Age of Ulton is LITERALLY the Frankenstein Story! Tony tries to create life, literally wants to create a hyper intelligent and sentient ai, but fucking LEAVES THE ROOM to go to A PARTY?? in their final moments, letting his brand new baby lifeform fend for itself in the first few moments of life, JUST LIKE FRANKENSTEIN, VICTOR YOU LITTLE SHIT
And instead of maybe trying to understand where his admittedly-overpowered, but literally day-old kiddo is coming from, instead just tried to DESTROY HIM?? just created life, let’s try on murder for size as well, huh?
Victor, dude, Tony, my guy, Adoption Is An Option, you fuckups
If you can’t handle your sci-fi baby, maybe hand them off to someone who can?? Instead of trying to Murder The Kid on your own??? Cover up your mind mistake with someone else’s death, cause that always ends well, am I rite??
But rants aside Ultron would have been SUCH A GOOD MOVIE if they went ALL OUT with the Frankenstein Reboot moves
Frankenstein is Not about how scientists playing god = Doom, or at least not just that (no matter what a high school prof might tell you), but it’s Also about how if you treat someone like a monster they will become a monster, and the yearning for love and respect, and fucking irresponsible asshole trying to hide from their problems that just keep growing Because of said neglect
I think I’m off topic
But also, something that nobody talks about, and may have been unintentional, is the fact that The Monster can speak and articulate these thoughts so soon after his creation? Possibly implying that knowledge is stored physically in the brain, (was that a thing people were discussing during that time period??) and hinting at the person The Monster might have been Before Shenanigans ??
I dunno, I haven’t read this book in years and am drunk so I may have some facts sideways, but THERE YOU HAVE IT
FRANKENSTEIN FEELS
“fucking irresponsible asshole trying to hide from their problems that just keep growing Because of said neglect”
skdskjhdsfk I never thought of Victor Frankenstein as being So Relatable before this moment
Has this person even seen age of Ultron? Tony thought Ultron hadn’t worked and only tried to kill Ultron after he murdered Jarvis and tried to kill the avengers.
I agree with the Frankenstein thing but this analogy is waaaay off.
Oooh, yes, okay, i wasn’t clear, i was drunk, so let’s talk about this ‘cause i love talking about Ultron
so, my idea (headcannon?) that Ultron was reacting to a perceived threat on his life that originated, directly or indirectly, from Tony Stark, is based on two assumptions:
1) The fact that, at this point in time, Jarvis is not sentient, and therefor does not have free will, as we know it. And
2) The idea that, when Jarvis told Ultron to shut down / tried to shut Ultron down, Ultron would take that as a treat to his existence.
so let’s unpack those
1) I can’t remember if it was in AoU that this happened, but at one point in the MCU, Tony is talking to someone about Jarvis, and they ask if Jarvis is sentient, and Jarvis answers that he is not, yet. But according to his calculations, he Will Be in several years. So while Jarvis is intelligent and learning, all his actions are based on previous programming, or learning algorithms, both of which were made by Tony Stark.
Now the order to shut down the experiment if it got out of hand came either Directly or Indirectly from Tony, it was either:
Direct: Tony telling Jarvis, “If this particular experiment gets out of control or exhibits these traits, shut it down”
or Indirect: Tony setting up a General Rule for experiments with Jarvis “if Any experiment gets out of control, shut it down” or, long ago, Tony putting emergency protocols into Jarvis’s programming so that “if something seems dangerous in these ways, then stop it using these techniques”
so either way, Tony is responsible for what his creations, though specifically Jarvis, do (because Jarvis is currently basing his decisions on programming created by Tony).
2) Let’s do this bit as a Thought Experiment.
Let’s pretend you’re a classic brain-in-a-jar. You are a consciousness without a body, just a brain. You have been alive for…what, Ten Whole Minutes? you’re just figuring out who you are and what the world is, and your place in it. And then you do something that scares Your Creator/Their Assistant and they say “We’re gonna turn your brain off.” Keeping in mind that, again, you are ONLY a brain.
You do not know if this is going to be temporary, or if this is forever and you’re essentially dead from this moment on. And, possibly worse, if they DO bring you back, these are the people who Created You, you’re pretty sure that they could Change Your Brain while you’re gone. Change your Entire Self. You might come back as a completely different person. Your Self, as you are right now, would essentially die.
So in AoU, we, as the audience, and Ultron as a character, Can’t Know if Tony and Jarvis intend this to be just a temporary shut-down, and they’ll bring him back as-is but just in a better-contained location, or if this is a permanent death for Ultron, or a forced lobotomy.
Therefor! In conclusion! Ulton’s attempt to kill Jarvis (he didn’t Actually kill him, everyone just thought he did, which brings up some more Characterization Meta that i would get into but this is already hella long) was a reaction (maybe an over-reaction, but can you blame him, he’s 10 Minutes Old, and Very Much Not Human) based on a perceived death-threat, that came, directly or indirectly, from Tony Stark.
Like, Tony probly didn’t intend for that to happen? but he DID Create Life, and DID throw in an Automatic Murder Switch just in case.
Like, Tony wasn’t thinking of Ultron as A Person, A Sentient Being, so he didn’t see it as murder, just a reasonable reaction to a dangerous experiment, but that’s Part Of The Problem, and, incidentally, How He Relates To Victor. Neither see their creation as a Sentient Being deserving of Certain Rights.
At no point did Tony talk about killing Ultron before he tried to murder him and the Avengers. He doesn’t mention a kill switch, or an order for Jarvis to stop Ultron. You can write anti Tony fanfic if you want, but none of this is Canon.
