Dance with Dragons

[skull_bearer]

Dear George Martin: I know you're used to stand alone books, but we have been following the series, and you don't have to rehash everything that's happened for us kthnx.
Also: How did you world's attitude towards gay people go from 'whatever, more important things to do' to 'GOD HATES QUEERS' in the space of... what? A year? Less?

Dear Editors: My bad. Yeah, sorry for rushing you, you should have had more time. Most of Dany's chapters could have been condensed into one and nothing of value would have been lost. Sheesh.

Dear Dany: PLEASE GOD LET SOEMTHING HAPPEN FOR THE LOVE OF FUCK ooh, something did! Go Dragons! Dragons are officially my new favourite characters! Fire and Blood! Burn the lot of them!

Dear Quentyn: /Nelson Munz/ HAW-HAW! After dealing with one self-pitying chapter after another, your death by dragon was the best fucking thing in this book.

Dear Tyrion: Dear, we know you killed your father. We read the last book, remember? While I get you're upset it would be less annoying if SOMETHING WAS ACTUALLY HAPPENING. NOTHING DOES. You just get snatched up by one lot or another, while you have all the presence of a somewhat snarky bag of potatoes and the only halfway intesrting part (where join a band of sellswords) happens AT THE END.

Dear Barristan: Love you *huggles* as a guard it's not really your fault that NOTHING HAPPENS.

Dear Theon: /Nelson Munz/ HAW- oh, that wasn't funny at all actually. Ummm... yeah, sorry I laughed. Ever. Hope Asha takes care of you. You little bastard.

Dear Asha: Well, you tried. Your chapters were kinda okay really.

Dear Victarion: I hope Dragon eats you so we can be rid of your SELF PITYING POINTLESSNESS IN WHICH NOTHING HAPPENS.

Dear Stannis: Thank you for being one of the characters who is striving against impossible odds to GET THIS STORY MOVING. Then GRRM kills you (I think, probably not). Fuck.

Dear Aegon and forgettable retinue: Excuse me? Did we ask for you? Do you see any 'extra Targaryans wanted here' signs? Do we look like we need new characters? What. The. Fuck. Are. You. Doing. Here. This is the fifth book, the fifth! If we needed you we've have met you at some point in the billion or so pages, we would have had some hint that you existed. But no, fully formed, like Athena from Zeus' head, you spring into the book from nowhere. It's almost enough to outweight the fact that you are one of the few characters who tries to do something. Almost. But then no one's paying you any attention so why are you here again?

Dear Jon: Okay, I supposed your excuse for NOTHING HAPPENING is that being stuck at the Wall you're not being too proactive, and there's enough going on around you that makes it almost okay. Almost. Ha-ha, you're dead.

Dear Jaime: That was... brief. Nice to know Brienne's okay.

Dear Arya: PLEASE NAMELESS GODS MAKE SOMETHING HAPPEN PLEASE. Take chapters from Feast of Crows, remove any actual important stuff, copy, paste, publish. NOTHING HAPPENS.

Dear Cercei: Umm... Something sort of happens, which makes it a pity you only had two chapters, but it made me really uncomfortable because it seems to be happening in some way or another to most of the female characters. It's the whole 'bring a proud woman low' thing. It happens to Dany (until AWESOME DRAGONS), it happens to Asha, it's happening (albeit somewhat consentingly) to Arya. IT IS GETTING REALLY CREEPY PLEASE STOP. I can't believe I asked this book to stop where I've seen faster moving glaciers.

Dear Others: WHERE ARE YOU I WILL HAPPILY SACRIFICE WHATEVER YOU WANT AS LONG AS YOU GET A MOVE ON AND SOMETHING HAPPENS!

Dear Davos: Good to know you're not dead either. NOW DO SOMETHING.

Dear Melisandre: Your chapter was one I really enjoyed. Things sort-of happened and GRRM had one of his famous tricks revealed in your chapter. this one worked. Coolishness.

Dear Bran: For that... what, three chapters we saw you for, you did some stuff. Which makes you almost unique in this book. Hope you do something cool like chat with an Other next book.

Dear series: Most of the books up until this one were gamechangers. The world after Game of Thrones was not the same as the one at the beginning. Same with Clash of kings. Double same with Storm of Swords. Not so much with Feast for Crows, but that felt like a 'breather' book, in which we took stock of the carnage wrought by the civil war, even so, the situation did shift (what with Cercei). This book? We're still where we started off, we haven't advanced at all. It's all build up, as though it's one big advert for Winds of Winter which won't be out for at least another two years.
Also, the title is completely irrelevant. There is not 'Dance with Dragons'. There was a Game of Thrones in the first book, a Clash of Kings in the second, there was one hell of a Storm of Swords in the third, and a pretty big Feast for Crows in the Fourth. Here the dragons spend most of their time locked up and only do something right at the end, and even then nothing game changing as the other four were.

General points:

- The poetically named chapters got REALLY ANNOYING since the names changed all the time and I didn't give a shit about half the characters so I was constantly going 'who now?'

- THIS IS NOT A BOOK, IT'S A PREPERATORY READING TEXT FOR THE REAL BOOK. NOTHING HAPPENS.

- In case you're selectively blind to caplocks,nothing of note really happens in this book until the end, and that's only really enough to set up a really annoying cliffhanger, but not enough to balance out the sense 'well if the next book's like this count me out'.

- For all this hate speech, I got through it in less than a week so it does flow, only it feels like it's going nowhere.

Comments

[kellicat.livejournal.com]

You're not the first person on my f-list to complain that nothing much happens in this book. I'll just keep waiting for a library copy. If I buy it, it'll be in paperback, not a $40 hardback.

[linndechir.livejournal.com]

Y'know, the fact that nothing happens most of the time explains why I'm still only somewhere at page 400 and in no hurry. That and the fact that I spoiled myself on the important stuff (i.e. Stannis, who can't be dead, or this series just lost its best character and will inevitably go downhill, for shame). And the fact that Daenerys annoys the hell out of me and this entire books seems to consist of people looking for Daenerys. This can only be explained by the fact that they've never met her and do not yet know of her annoying habit to kiss people on the cheek. I will never understand GRRM's choice of POV characters, always focusing on the boring ones and ignoring the cool ones. Couldn't we have had less blablabloodofthedragonblabla and more Davos looking for and hopefully finding Rickon so Shaggydog can eat everyone?

Whatever. It's still a fun read, and I should maybe finish it before complaining, but I'm not entirely sure how to get through so much Daenerys.

Oh, since I haven't finished yet, where did this happen?
Also: How did you world's attitude towards gay people go from 'whatever, more important things to do' to 'GOD HATES QUEERS' in the space of... what? A year? Less?

[skull-bearer.livejournal.com]

The fact that Satin is pretty much universally hated even on the Wall, his past hadn't really been an issue perviously, and Victarion drowning a bunch of guy!whores for no reason than they're 'unclean'.

[linndechir.livejournal.com]

Oh, okay, I didn't get there yet. I'd have no trouble buying that the Ironborn have a different view on stuff (they generally seem to be rather strange people), but on the Wall it does feel weird. oO

[skull-bearer.livejournal.com]

The problem with the Ironborn is that weird as they are, they don't strike me as a particularly homophobic culture, no more than the rest of Westeros, anyway. They're hard and tough, and seem to respect that more than anything. Asha managed to be captain of her own ship without too much trouble. It would seem to me that wouldn't care what you did as long as you could fight and sail and drink with the rest of them.

[linndechir.livejournal.com]

*shrug* Like all "tough" cultures I wouldn't be surprised if they at least had a problem with men who like to get fucked. Either way, with the Ironborn I could generally buy the idea of cultural differences, surprising as they may be, but if all the guys on the Wall, no matter where they're from, suddenly hate Satin, that does seem strange. But as I said, I haven't read those parts yet, so I don't really know what to think yet.

[kirby-crow.livejournal.com]

Don't forget Tyrion - who had so much compassion for Bran and for all creatures different from the norm - sees a hermaphrodite and his thoughts automatically go to "FREAK!"

I mean, wtf? Where did that come from?

Satin was tragically under-used in the book. Why is he even there? He's like a carrot on a stick that GRRM keeps promising to give us, but whenever we reach for it he whacks us over the head with the carrot. Satin doesn't do anything except serve as an example of "This is teh ghey. We don't like them." Every scene he's in, someone is focusing on his sexual history. :(

[zhadra-ahni.livejournal.com]

I've been hemming and hawing about having just this same reactions because I wanted to love this book so much, ffs I've been obsessing on and off for six years waiting for it and anticipating it, and...there were multiple points where my eyes just straaaayed off the page because so many parts were so boring. Still made myself go through it in 14 straight hours, but if I were actually interested it would've been faster. :|

I've never found Dany or Tyrion boring before, they're two of my favorite characters, BUT THEY WERE SO BORING IN THIS. ;A; Pages and pages of description, how many ancient abandoned cities do we need to see, Jesus, it felt like I was in the particularly ponderous bits of Tolkien. And FFS, if Dany is supposed to be ruling Westeros through blood and fire by the end, let one of the million and one plotlines designed to bring her there make any headway, instead of her STILL BEING NAIVELY DETERMINED TO RETURN AND RULE MEEREEN AT THE END OF THE BOOK and STILL NOT HAVING PARTICULARLY GOOD CONTROL OVER HER DRAGONS.

After the intriguing set-up in Feast for Crows, Quentyn Martell and his POV chapters are SO POINTLESS THAT I WAS ASTONISHED.

As for Jon, I felt that he was one of the few people in this book who actually had a semi-full arc of character development, coming into his own as the Lord Commander, learning to really command the Watch and grimly stripping himself of the remnants of boyhood in the process...except for his last chapter. 8| WTF SUDDENLY WE ARE ABANDONING THE WALL? You have been hammering the point this whole book that these human conflicts don't matter, the Night's Watch needs to focus on the threat of the Others beyond the Wall; that sensibility is why I've been supporting you! D8< And now you're just going to traipse off with the Wildlings and abandon your duty? WTF. I can't even blame the other crows for stabbing him now that he did that, but the main thing was that it didn't feel consistent. Sure, the Watch was looking at him funny the whole time for getting chummy with the Wildlings, but the whole point was that he was right, they need more people, and DEAD WILDLINGS => MORE WIGHTS, PPL. And then the whole ending just invalidated that. 8|||

Aegon: ...Well, I thought we might be hearing from Jon Connington, considering the anvilicious nature of the exiled-BFF-of-the-dead-Prince thing, but I thought he'd just be used to provide more backstory. :|a The Aegon thing did come out of nowhere, and more importantly, it's way too skimmed over for readers to develop any investment/interest in the character himself. He doesn't even have a personality yet! Why are we supposed to care about him except for this being another weird upheaval, another claimant to the Iron-Throne-That-Doesn't-Really-Matter,-ffs-Winter-Is-Coming.

For the first time in...pretty much ever, the character whose chapters I was riveted by were Bran's. 8|a He finally had direct access to so much of the mythology that's been built up in bits and pieces, I was kind of just fangasming. Children of the Forest! \o/ \o/ \o/ Greenseeing into trees, visions of the past! Extremely morally dubious body-possession! Not to mention AKLJSDFDSF THREE-EYED CROW = BLOODRAVEN!!!1 OMG I screamed so loud when I figured that out!

I really think that the overall problem with this book was the lack of editing. GRRM himself has said that as the series has grown so bogglingly popular, as well as compared to Tolkien in scope, he's felt the need to be more epic, and I think that's really hurt his style. It used to be quick, concise, action-packed chapters, with a tight overall story-arc that all of the other threads were woven into seamlessly.

This book, on the other hand, seemed meandering, had far too many throw-away POVs, very little plot progression or character development, and too many unnecessary WORDS. Sheesh. I honestly think a third to a half of it could have been cut down.

[jewelia13.livejournal.com]

HEE. You are spot on! (I haven't read the book, but you've echoed a lot of frustrations I have with the characters - Dany, Tyrion, Victarion, Cersei and Jon in particular.)

The only Starks I care for are Sansa, Arya and Rickon. Other than that, it's Jorah, Bronn, Barristan, Sandor, Littlefinger and maybe Jaime.

[foldingstar.livejournal.com]

You know, this was the first book from the series where I could actually put it down and walk away for a while before continuing. I had to read all of the others in one sitting, although Feast of Crows was tiring!

So yep, not all that impressed with this one for many of the same reasons you have given. My obvious thoughts for Jon is him "maybe" being dead and his soul moving into Ghost just like that other guy from the first chapter.
Brienne I think is dead, or something like whatsherface Stark.

Hmmmm. Just kinda bored by this book really.

[arkan2.livejournal.com]

Took me a while to get around to reading this. Probably never would have made it if I weren't listening on audiobook because ye gods, pacing, Martin, pacing!

Dear George Martin: I know you're used to stand alone books, but we have been following the series, and you don't have to rehash everything that's happened for us kthnx.

Well, yeah. To be fair to Martin though, it has been over seven years since the last book came out, and some of his readers' memories may have gone a bit fuzzy.

Dear Quentyn: /Nelson Munz/ HAW-HAW! After dealing with one self-pitying chapter after another, your death by dragon was the best fucking thing in this book.

Fair enough, but it also made his subplot massively pointless. This goes quintuple for Jon Snow's (probable) death at the end.

Dear Tyrion: Dear, we know you killed your father. We read the last book, remember? While I get you're upset it would be less annoying if SOMETHING WAS ACTUALLY HAPPENING. NOTHING DOES.

Although I found his ever-irreverent outlook did help. Somewhat.

Dear Victarion: I hope Dragon eats you so we can be rid of your SELF PITYING POINTLESSNESS IN WHICH NOTHING HAPPENS.

Nameless gods, yes. In a book which could practically be re-titled Irrelevant Asides: The (Very, Very Long) Novel, his subplot struck me as particularly irrelevant and uninteresting.